Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting
Video Transcript
Duration: 96 minutes
Speakers: 19
There we go. Alright.
This board is consists of Roswell residents appointed by the mayor and approved by city council.
We serve voluntarily and without compensation.
This board has the final say on tonight's application. There is only one. The second one, the Barrington one, is not on the agenda, so please take note. We're only gonna consider the, Brookfield one.
Appeals
to the board's decisions, if applicable,
can be filed within thirty days within the with the superior court of Fulton County.
And here's the procedure that we will follow tonight.
The city representative will present their report, including
any recommendations.
The applicant will make a presentation or make a statement if they'd like. We will have public comments.
We will be limited to two minutes per speaker relevant to the application.
The speaker, as they come up, must state their name and address and speak clearly into the microphone that's at the lectern there.
The applicant will have an opportunity to rebut if desired.
The board members can ask questions at any time,
throughout the presentation,
and the board will deliberate and vote.
A simple majority
will decide tonight's matter.
We will begin with the city's presentation.
Good afternoon.
This is Richard, planning and zoning.
Tonight
can you guys hear me? Yes. Okay.
Tonight, we'll be discussing VZA case 2025205412250,
Brookfield Club Drive.
It's a variance to reduce the side and rear accessory structure setbacks
for an existing
sport court.
Barren's requests.
The code
requirements, UDC three two three detached house, number one letter j, side interior,
minimum,
10 feet. UDC
three two, three detached house, number one letter k, rear minimum
10 feet.
Variant's request.
The applicant is seeking relief from UDC three two three one j to reduce the accessory structure side setback
from 10 feet to 3.8
feet.
The applicant is seeking relief from UDC 3231
K to reduce the accessory structure rear setback
from 10
to 3.4
feet.
Here is the proposed,
site plan.
Here is an aerial image. You can see the sport cord in the top left.
Toning map.
Topographic
map?
Background.
This property is owned RS 18 single family residential
and is 40,114
square feet
or point nine two acres in size.
It is located in a cul de sac.
It has one road frontage off Brookfield Club Drive
and is part of the Brookfield West subdivision.
The lot is generally triangular shaped with a 40 foot front setback,
10 foot side setbacks, and a 35 foot rear setback for the primary structure.
The primary structure is a 4,189
square foot single family house.
The front yard consists of a lawn and small to medium sized vegetation
with a driveway that abuts the western side property line and leads to a side loaded garage.
The neighbor to the rear of the property has a fence along a portion of the rear property line.
The accessory structure setbacks for the lot are 50 feet for the front
and 10 feet for the side and rear.
The backyard contains a patio, retaining wall,
lawn, and sporadic trees, and small vegetation.
The applicant has built a 1,350
square foot sport court 3.4
feet from the rear property line and 3.8 feet from the west side property line.
Approximately 395
square feet of the sport court is within the side and rear accessory structure setbacks.
The sport court is approximately 100 feet from the side neighboring house to the west of the property,
approximately 70 feet from the rear neighboring house northeast of the property,
and approximately 85 feet from the rear neighboring house northwest
of the property.
The applicant did not apply for a variance nor a land disturbance permit prior to building the sport court and is now asking for two variances for the existing accessory structure.
The topography of the backyard severely limits the buildable area and thus the Sport Court was built on the flattest area with enough room
in the northwest corner of the property.
The applicant received a tree permit to clear the area for the sport court and received a building permit for a retaining wall that supports the sport court.
It was the retaining wall building permit that brought the Sport Court to the extent to to the attention of city staff.
The applicant applied for an administrative variance originally, but after receiving two opposition letters from the adjacent neighbors, the applicant was then required
to apply for a major.
Here is the site plan of the Sport Court. You can see the bottom left, 3.8 feet from the property line.
Top right, 3.4 feet from the rear property line.
Right here, the highlighted in red is the part of the Sport Court that is,
encroaching.
Hardship.
The topography
of the lot limits the buildable area of the backyard.
Other properties with a flatter topography can build in their backyard without seeking a variance.
The varied topography on this lot limits the buildable area to where the sport court currently
resides.
Granting the requested variance will not give the applicant any special privileges as the property is a lot of record and the applicant has the right to maximize the use and enjoyment
of the property.
Many other lots in the Brookfield West subdivision have, including the adjacent property to the rear of the lot, swimming pools installed in their backyards, and like a sport court, swimming pools are used as recreation.
The requested variance will match the existing character development patterns of the neighborhood as mandated in neighborhood in the neighborhood residential character area of the comprehensive plan.
The special circumstances are not the result of the actions of the applicant as the varied topography of the lot is existing.
The requested variance is the minimum variance possible that allows the sport court to be built on the most level area of the backyard.
Here is a view of,
the house from Brookfield Club Drive.
Here's a view of the sport court from the applicant's driveway. It's right at the top of that hill there.
Staff recommendations. Staff recommends approval
of both variance requests.
Staff's technical opinion is based on the approval criteria defined in UDC thirteen eleven
seven. There are conditions on this property because of its topography
that present a hardship.
This is the grounds of staff support for the sport court to be located in the existing location.
The board can add practical conditions that could potentially mitigate
the impact of the sport court on neighboring properties, such as a vegetative buffer,
requirements, lighting, and time limit uses.
The sport court would be allowed by right if it was located approximately six to seven feet from where it is now located.
And, staff has received three letters in opposition
and five letters in support for this case.
Oh, any questions?
Yes. You're right. Dan Siger, can we ask questions at the end of this and have you come back up or do we wanna address everything now? Of course.
I can come back up? We wanna kinda get through and then Yeah. Sure. That's fine.
I reserve the right to talk later. Okay. You always reserve, mister Seager.
Right. Okay.
Would the applicant
like to present or
state anything?
He goes there. Sure, please.
Yes, please. Yeah.
First of all, my name is Josh Katterhindrich, and this is my wife, Lauren.
First, I wanna thank the board for being here and considering the variance.
Thank you to the city of Roswell and Richard for walking us through the process as well.
To begin with, just a little background.
My wife's a school teacher at Mountain Park Elementary.
Our kids go to Mountain Park and also Crabapple right now.
I'm a football coach. I've been for the last couple of years with Roswell Rec. Just moved into
your Hornets as well,
and also, baseball along the way and basketball during that time. So just a little bit about us and where we're coming from.
We started this project to provide a space for our nine and 12 year old son and daughter to play. We have, we have a great neighborhood, but it is not easy for kids to bike or visit friends, so we decided to set up a sports court.
Unfortunately, our property has an elevation changes. And starting from the street going all the way to the back of the property, we do not have a flat spot
on the property.
But at the top of the property, there is an area that would be perfect and flat.
We obtained a tree,
land disturbance retaining wall
and,
permit, plus we went through water mitigation plan approval for this job.
I did my best to follow the rules and go through the process.
And some more background. I'm not an attorney. I hope I, do not need to hire one after this meeting. I'm just a homeowner who built a, basketball court for his kids and follow the requirements for Roswell.
As you saw, my property has extreme hardships that forced us to use the setback so that my property is afforded the same rights enjoyed by other properties.
The arguments from the Schneiders and their attorney makes me, ask the question. Did they actually visit the property or just look at satellite photos?
Okay.
Before I get the package, it would be better.
We can put it on the overhead. That's fine.
Yep. Yep.
I see that okay? Mhmm.
K.
Here's a satellite photo submitted by the Schneiders where you cannot see the topography of the lot. The only thing you can see is that the Schneiders pool deck and hardscaping is almost on the property line and possibly encroaching into the rear setback.
If the attorney did not walk the property, they would the, attorney did walk the property, they would see the topography. They would understand this property has major limitations
and a very steep grade. The criteria of extraordinary and exceptional conditions or practical difficulties
because of its size, shape, and topography is more is, most definitely satisfied.
The suggestion that the approval of the variance would result in an unconstitutional
taking of the Schneider's property
misconstrues the nature of a zoning variance. A variance is not an act of compulsion or appropriation by the government. It is a relief granted to another property owner from the strict application of the zoning code. No physical or regulatory
intrusion upon the Schneider's property would occur as a result of granting this variance.
Accordingly,
the taking clause of the fifth amendment and the just compensation clause of the Georgia constitution are not implicated.
To constitute a cons conceptual taking, there must be a direct governmental
action that deprives a property owner of all economical,
viability
use of their land, which clearly is not the case here.
Also, the basketball,
court is below the top grade of the neighbor's property. As, and as a consideration for the neighbors, we place the basketball goal on the other side of the court away
from the neighbor's house and out of the setback.
Basketball court. Can you guys see it okay? Yep.
Thank you. You can see the topography from this angle pretty well. I don't know. Forty, fifty feet, I mean, from the street as well. So that shows that. And we took in consideration to put the basketball court well outside the setback and the goal and,
as a consideration again to be neighborly on this. So we thought and did what we could when we were put pulling this together.
In addition, there's significant,
growth,
established vegetation,
a fence, and natural barriers that separate the properties. These features serve not only as a visual, but also as a physical buffer,
mitigating factors in any claim of adverse impact to their property.
From
my side of the court, because you're on the left. On the right side for yours is directly, into that. They've removed all their specimen trees, so they have but they have a major amount of growth. Then they have, a fence there as well. So you can see it's well established back there. That you can see their house on the right there a little bit. I mean, maybe you can see the top of the chimney. Maybe you can't.
So that's just so you can relate to where it's at.
Again, thank you guys for your time. And any questions, let us know.
Questions? Yes. Mister Huey.
Hi. This is Rob Huey. The question I have is,
during the process,
why didn't you seek to find out what the,
the setbacks were and work for the city of Roswell? That that's question one. Question two
is size wise, you built it at thirteen fifty.
Was there an opportunity to build it smaller? Those are really my two questions.
Bert, so originally on the, setback in variance, I did read some stuff where when you're doing land disturbance, it's up to five there's different things in
5,000 square feet researching the setbacks, and I arrived at I didn't think that was gonna be an issue. I was also slightly confused by their fence, which there's a couple feet on the other side of the fence.
So when I was pulling everything together, there was a confusion on why there's a couple feet or,
on that. So
eyeballing it, I didn't think. And then when again, once we realized what was going on, we went back from the beginning, paid for all these plans and everything, and reset.
The size of the court is basically up to a three point line as tight as it can possibly get
where where it's coming from and the very hedges.
Personally, I would have liked it smaller. It would have been less expensive.
So that's why we particularly did this.
If you're in Roswell, court space, my son plays basketball too, is at a premium.
So we're probably gonna have some practices over there. But,
so we tried to make it as realistic as possible,
for for this thing. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that.
Any other questions?
Yep. Yes, mister Seager, you recognize?
I think what I'd like to go back to to Rob's. This is Dan Seager.
Question is,
in the whole process,
you elected not to ask for
a a building permit for the
sports court.
And
was there no
period of time during that process where you had a conversation with the city or anybody else that said you would need a permit to build that size of
patio or or sports court in your backyard. Now once it's going on, I did get a retaining wall land disturbance permit once, I did get a Yeah. I understand that.
But that'll happen after you built the sports court.
And, I guess, you can run us right through what the process was. You clear you got the the tree removal permit Yes. And then you you cleared the trees, you cleared the shrubs and stuff in the area where you're gonna build a court. Yes.
After that, you built a court.
Yes. And then you came to the city and asked for a building permit for the retaining wall. Yes. The debt so my question is, I guess what we don't understand what we don't understand is
why would you not approach a city on the building permit for the for the sports court? Because it's a pretty sizable
piece of construction. There is I'll show you on the website too. There is something that says under 5,000 square feet of slab or sport sports court does not need a land disturbance permit. I can pull up. It's on one of these yellow summary pages that give some direction
on what you need a land disturbance permit
for.
Even my retaining wall was on the shorter side when I when I started.
So, again, once we I did the tree permit, which wasn't the simplest thing to do. I mean, I wasn't they were trying. I didn't and, again,
pouring driveways or, you know, whatever. I didn't realize that there was gonna need to be concrete. I understand structurally
when we're going. And, again, there if there maybe after this, there'll be some clear direction. And once I did that, I went back to the beginning, stopped the project,
and,
went through it. So,
again, my reading from when I was trying to do it first of all, I wasn't thinking you needed it to be doing the call. Right? I thought you could pour,
you know, the basketball court in the back. So that's where I started from the ground
Okay. And then and then when I moved through it,
I saw roofs before
Somewhere in the material we received,
it was brought up that in '24,
you were you were advised that you would probably need some building permits to put that court in.
How does that timing reflect with how you approach things?
I'm sorry. Say that again? Like, what In our correspondence that we received,
I'm not sure exactly what area it was, but it was mentioned that on December 28 and December 29 Sir. There was either correspondence
or conversations where
where you were involved with it, that you would need some type of building permit
for this sports court. Was it You're talking about the the email I received? Yes. From I mean I mean, I don't take, direction from
Okay.
So it was one of the neighbors that brought it up.
And I already had the permit. I would have to check when I started the permit process, but I think I already had the permit process for the land disturb. I would have to check the dates of when I initiate.
Okay. And again, the water mitigation and all the steps there. It was I mean, I that could I could've that could've been October. I don't wanna stay aligned, but I'm pretty sure those permits are lined up coming out. It's inspection or,
retaining wall site,
conditions and all that,
with that going through. So
Good.
I can look up why we sit or someone has it. I will look up the spot that says about the land disturbance of the 5,000 square feet
of,
commercial thing that I found on the where I was kinda started this. I'm not
again, if I
again, I'll I'll show that to you because I know that's
k.
Any other questions?
Yes. I recognize.
Oh,
mister Hanna is recognized first and then mister Kolesky. John Hanna. Okay.
Got a got a quick question.
Are there any plans to
run electricity out there and have lighting on the court? No. Not as of right now.
Something that you may consider in the future? I would consider putting,
on the, back end of the court by the basket by the rim.
Okay. Thank you.
Yes. Mister Kowalski recognized. Yeah. Ian Kowalski.
Maybe it was in the package, but, it escaped me. When was this,
slab poured for the Sport Court approximately?
February.
Of this year? Yeah. I'd have to double check. I just But it was okay. It was in February. I wanna take a look. That's close enough. It's one of the coldest days of the year. So that's all I know because
k.
Yes. Mister Schumacher.
Mark Schumacher.
Did you think of getting a survey done? I presume not.
I just I I there is already a survey on the property
on
with what from years and years and years ago. So Did it show the setbacks?
No.
Yep.
Rocky Hoard.
That wouldn't be ideal, I'm sure, from your perspective, but
is it feasible
that if
what would it entail
to essentially
pour some more concrete,
and jackhammer up the encroaching portion?
I mean, I don't know if that runs in your retaining wall or I don't recall the configuration,
but,
if push came to shove and you said, okay, I wanna keep as much of my cord in place as I can. I'll relocate the goals, but I can remove the encroachment and pour some more slab. I mean, tell me I'm I'm sure you've thought about that and tell me just
the whether that's practical. Yeah. Absolutely. I heard it's more expensive to remove concrete than to pour concrete for one. Obviously, it's up this hill. And again, no easy feat with what I would have liked it to have
been flat,
down there 100%.
So I don't know. The Concrete saws, jackhammers,
lot of construction coming through
on that.
Just moving the concrete back,
you know, is gonna be a major production,
as well. What would be left there would could be potentially issues. Again, this this spot and this plan was also approved for the water mitigation and the piping that we have there as well. So
it would be pretty major production. It'd be it'd be worse than the port
putting the concrete in unfortunately,
on that. But you know
Thank
you.
Yep.
Mister Schumacher. Mark Schumacher.
Did you have any discussion with your contractor about any potential setback issues?
No. Did you use
a licensed contractor
to do the work?
On the contract? Yes.
I did not check their license.
K.
Anything else?
Alright. You may have a seat. Thank you.
Alright. We are gonna move to the,
community member,
comment portion of
the agenda, and we're gonna set the timer at two,
two minutes per person. As a reminder, when you approach the lectern, please state your name and address
before you start your comment. You may approach one at a time.
Good evening, mister chair. Julie Sellers with Dillard Sellers, 1776
Peachtree Street in Atlanta, Georgia.
I am here on behalf of the adjacent neighbors. We do have the neighbors, both the Williams and the Schneiders here.
They would like to,
yield their two minutes to me. I will take less than ten minutes, but if that's acceptable,
rather than having them come up and ask to yield.
It doesn't work like that. They they can come up and and talk for their two minutes if they'd like, but, you have two minutes to make your statement.
Then we will rely on the information that we have provided, and I will talk very, very fast. This is not a hardship.
I believe that the applicant,
owns a remodeling business and is well aware of the regulations
in the city. They have a very flat surface that is a lacrosse or sports,
field. It is not paved, but there is certainly no hardship
they could have. Certainly,
located,
the basketball court. They began this work in December,
began removing trees without permits. These are photographs from the Schneiders' home.
There was code enforcement that was called in late December.
Specifically,
this work began
after my client sent an email
saying,
hey. Can you hold off for a few days? We've got some questions. We've got some concerns. Can you just hold off? And the response was,
just as you heard here,
the applicant doesn't take direction from his neighbors. And so the response was, I don't need your approval for plans. I have my property. I don't understand you requesting my delay to do work. If you want me to delay, you're gonna have to pay,
I think it was 1,400 to $1,800.
He did say that he was putting a basketball court well within and no boundary issues. So he knew that there were setback issues and just didn't bother
to confirm.
The concrete was poured on January 2,
less than a week after my client sent the email saying, hey. Let's just check with the city and make sure this is okay.
This is absolutely a self created hardship.
I've got packets that we will, be glad to hand out. I did not realize you were gonna limit me to the two minutes and thought that they could yield this. As far as the criteria,
other owners in R 18 don't have,
the right to maintain two separate sports fields. That is a preference. It's not a right, and it certainly doesn't justify
encroaching in the setbacks.
As to, criteria b,
approval absolutely confirms special privileges on this owner. Last month, the same board denied a setback variance
for a pavilion.
There's no hardship here. This is simply someone who was not willing
to take the time to communicate with the city,
especially somebody in the build profession. It's just a bit shocking. You can start wrapping up. Yeah. Okay. I sure will. This is a self created.
There are flat areas on this property that this could have been used.
This is could have built a smaller court. This is a huge court. There's no
requirement to max out every inch and certainly not to encroach.
This is what the backyard looks like. You can see on the right hand side, that's the soccer field.
Flat,
certainly could be utilized, and I'll just show you a few other pictures.
This is the
concrete,
the retaining wall, and we request that you deny
this variance. And I'll ask my clients if they wanna come up. I'll go ahead and hand out the materials that we have to show. There's absolutely no justification,
for this this location
and the size,
is excessive.
If the next community member would like to approach you, you may. Sorry. Thank you.
Questions of the
sellers. Sure. Sure.
You want to do that now or you want to do that at the end? All of them. Yes.
We may ask you to come back up. We'll we'll have the rest of the
yeah. So that's No. No. You can you can I I was talking to miss Sellers? Yeah. You can you can proceed. Go ahead.
Mister Rockey. Sorry. I can't see your last name. Or I I I do wanna I'm, sorry. Brian Bittler. 920 Front Truck Court.
I live in the Brookfield neighborhood.
I appreciate you guys here in this out, but, I am familiar with the property.
My kids play over there.
To address your question about, can it be moved back?
I'm sure if the retaining wall was moved, that could be an option.
However, it would create a very steep drop off. I mean, it would not be safe for kids to play on.
And, you know, I guess,
he referred to it as a soccer core pursuit
grass field.
That's that is a grass area
to call it a sports area or a sports field. That's a little bit of a stretch. I mean, they have dogs and yes, they have a grass in the backyard.
I don't think there's anywhere else that this court could go.
So I just wanted to share that my opinion there and clarify that question.
Oh, he he did you yeah. He stated,
his address.
Right. Is that where is that in relation to? Oh, I don't think that's on the map.
You're in the general neighborhood? Yeah. Correct. In in the I think it is well well worth noting, that the adjust the other adjacent property owner that
is
You can stop this time. It's fine.
Immediate property
left with the Kyle Hendricks,
that's probably closest to the star to the
Yep.
Thank you. Thank you for your time.
Anyone else would like to make a comment?
Good afternoon. I'm Sophie Schneiders.
I'm the adjacent
owner in the rear,
one zero four five Balmoral Lane in Roswell.
So,
the the neighbor leveled,
some area before
for the
Lacrosse
court, and, we never said anything. We have lacrosse balls falling into our pool on our property,
and we know that they didn't pull a permit for that.
But we didn't say anything. But then,
when we noticed that,
we got a that when when we noticed that they were leveling the backyard
and,
the contractor told my husband that they were putting on a basketball court, I called the city. And the city told me that I should fill in
a record
request, which I did.
And then on Monday, I that was on Friday. On Monday, I called the city, and they said to me that there was no permit.
And they asked me
to file a complaint,
for the trees and for the basketball court, which I did.
I did that, I think, the same day.
So then I wrote an email to our neighbor,
though that was already on the weekend, and I asked him about more information.
And I was also worried from what I saw saw that it was very close to our property.
And,
he was not very friendly in his response back, and I just didn't know what to do, especially because he was asking us to pay money for him to stop, which I don't understand.
I never had a contractor
asking me for money if I asked him to postpone any work
I had done.
And then he said that,
the concrete was poured in February, which in fact it was not. It was
poured on January 3.
I took photos of that.
Yeah.
Yeah. And and one thing I would like to say too is,
our backyard is basically in a valley.
And the,
and then it goes up, and then there's a hill. And on this hill is the basketball court. So everybody standing there
is looking, sorry, directly into our backyard.
And it happened too that they were approaching our fence, like, really close and looking,
into our backyard. Like, now it felt like I was in a zoo. That was really weird.
When I stand at my kitchen sink, I can see directly
the hoop and everybody playing there, and it's it's weird. It's not like I'm at home anymore.
It's a visual intrusion, and
and that's not even the noise factor.
It's,
it's
doesn't feel like home anymore,
to be honest. Thank you. It's really hard for me. Thank you for your comment.
We had a question for you.
We had a question for you. Oh, okay. Sure. We can address it now here.
Yeah. This is Dan Seager.
You didn't say that your the black metal fence is your fence. Right? That we see it in Mhmm. Yeah. On the backside of the the court. Love points. So it that the fence is inside your property line. That's what you said about two or three feet. Is that what you said? Or It's about three feet and then it opens up much more than the tenant move.
Okay.
Right. I understand. Yeah. So that kind of that corner is kind of the closest
point. One of the 3.4
feet is the closest and it opens up a little bit, but I don't think it's more than four.
Well, the question was I was gonna ask the city staff
was that in the packet, they said that,
the the sports court was about 70 feet, I think, from your swimming pool
or from your house.
It said from your house. So how close is it to the swimming pool? Must be another
Not much. I honestly didn't take any measurements, but it must be
Max? Mhmm. 20 feet?
I would say it's it's less than 20, maybe 15.
Alright.
They now look very negative. You see
only
the head of the tree.
Any other Were those were those scrubs removed?
Did you say they removed they were your scrubs that got On their side and they cut down trees that
are on the line on our side and they took a branch.
The bushes on my side, we,
on purpose, let crow since the
Is
there an HOA in your neighborhood?
Is there an HOA?
Yep. Homeowners associate? Office in houses and I have to be the person that
Does the HOA get involved in any of these
developments along
with people's property?
Okay.
Mister Schumacher, you have a question.
The applicant suggested that
part of your pool or your structure might be in the setback itself. Do you know if that's true?
Absolutely.
Wait more than 10 feet off the line.
Okay.
K. Yeah. Mister,
Hoard.
Rocky Hoard.
If the applicant
had
built this court
such that it didn't
that it did not encroach on
into the setback lines.
Would that completely resolve the concerns that you have, which are loss of privacy,
potentially
intrusion of a basketball into your
backyard?
Would in other words, would that
mitigate all of your concerns? Because they had every right
to build within the setback lines.
Yeah. I mean,
the thing is that
if it's within their rights to build something like that and they get the silly approval for that within the setbacks,
then they are within their rights.
But the thing is they didn't do that, and even when we
asked them to to
that we would go to the city and talk about the setwags so we know where they are and where they could put,
the basketball court.
They simply said
they knew everything, and they were within their rights.
I understand.
So
if indeed
they had pushed the court back about six feet, that would put that within the setback,
lines. Six feet
inward from the side yard and six feet inward from the rear yard or rear setback.
I'm struggling if if that would resolve
the concerns that you have
regarding privacy and potential
intrusion.
You know what the lacrosse and soccer area, there was basically no noise. It was just the balls coming to our area.
But,
with the basketball court and the concrete,
it it's very loud.
And especially since it's on a hill, it comes right at us. And it it's across
the street too. Yeah. And our neighbors too. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Okay. You may have a seat. Thank you. Thank you.
Good evening. We are David and Sylvia Williams. Address, 1035
Balmoral Lane.
I wanna begin just saying this is not a personal thing for the Katterheim Ridge family or their supporters. Never met them before today. So,
we rode the elevator up together, and I think we were cordial. And so,
it's unfortunate that we find ourselves in this situation, but I thank the members of the board for your time and your service tonight.
I won't repeat any of the things that were already said. You've heard them and then you understand them, so there's no need to repeat them. I do wanna bring up two other points. And for me, it's more a matter of principle. It's not a matter of enjoyment of property or anything like that. So I wanna approach this, my comments,
more from a principal matter.
For the criteria for variance,
one of the criteria, I think it's
the fourth criteria, special circumstances
are not the result of the action of the applicant.
I think we've demonstrated tonight that there were actions taken by the applicant, unfortunately,
that resulted in this, why there is a request for the variance.
It's up to the board to determine whether you're gonna approve the, variance or not,
and think about whether
there were actions taken by the applicant that led to the the request,
I think, hopefully, you would come to the agreement that we have that that is the case.
The other one is an interesting one, and I'm a nerd, so I geek out on,
on things like this. But,
there is part of the UDC,
section article 13 dot nine dot two,
part b,
which talks about what the zoning director is authorized to approve from a variance perspective.
It does say that the,
zoning director,
and I'm assuming by extension the board, but I may be wrong about that, can approve variances for rear, side, front, etcetera.
But there is a stipulation here that says the side yard variance should not exceed two feet.
In this case, the variance requested is well more than six feet, almost three times, the maximum allowed in the UDC.
So I'd like the board to take that under consideration again. Again, that's section 13 dot nine dot two part b.
It literally says,
designing directors authorized to approve administrative variances for the following. Part Part b says side yard, and then it says variance not to exceed two feet. So just matters of principle. I'm a citizen of Roswell. I love living here. I'm very curious to see what the outcome is, but I just wanted to present these two not previously mentioned,
items to you.
That's all that we have. Sure.
Really a question probably for the city staff, but I believe
am I correct that the code section he's reciting is for an administrative
variance
that could be granted by the,
by the
staff. Yeah. By the zoning director as opposed to what this board can do, which is deal with more major variances.
I think that was a yes. Yep.
Yep. That's correct. Yeah. I I was gonna ask Jeannie to make a statement, but, yeah, you're you're on it, mister Hord.
Thank you. So, just for everyone,
Jeanne, would you like to explain to the attendees,
yeah, what what that particular section is? You may have a seat if that's all. Yeah. Unless you have any questions for us. Any
I I think we're good. Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
I was I was offering him the mic, but I agree with him. If if any okay. It's for administrative,
variances. So not variances that would come here to this board. Alright. Thank you.
Would anyone else like to make a comment?
Hey.
My name is Josh Davis.
I live at 885
Brookfield Parkway.
I'm a member of the voluntary
HOA, which is
a paid membership, by the way. We pay to keep up the community,
in our neighborhood. So,
just wanna say I support this. My kids will use it.
Basketball is a great sport.
When I was a kid, I I wanted to play all the time.
I asked my dad to build a court, put up a goal, and,
he was working hard. So just wanna
paint that in a little different light.
Thank you. Thank you.
My name is Bobbie Mason. I live at 9230
Stonemus Trace in Roswell,
and I'm the
mother of Lauren and the grandparents
of Brooks and Ada who play in the backyard.
First, there are a couple of comments I wanted to make. First of all,
that is not a soccer or lacrosse court in the backyard. It's a grassy area
with a little soccer net
in in it. And I'm sure many of us have those in our backyard or our neighbors do.
And,
yes, occasionally, maybe a ball who hasn't had a basketball roll into their driveway from the next door neighbor or something.
But,
I think one of the issues is,
yes, there are kids that live in that house behind them and
like any of our kids and grandchildren, they play back there.
And they're not back there on that sports court
all the time. I mean, they go to school, they have football practice, they have basketball practice after school.
And so anyway, it's not like they're out there all the time. And even if the court was moved,
like,
I can't read his name
from here and
that mentioned if the court were moved back six feet, they still would maybe hear a basketball
on the concrete.
And the kids would still be playing up there whether there was a basketball court there or not.
So that's my only thing. They're kids. They're back there playing,
and
kids are kids. And so I'm sure we've all dealt with neighbors who have children.
And when you buy a house in a neighborhood,
you, you know, your kids are gonna be playing in the backyard and making some noise.
Thank you.
My name is Meredith Scott. I am a neighbor. I live at 1405
Tennis Court Place. I actually back up to the tennis courts
pretty close to our house, actually, and pickleball has recently become a very popular
activity. It is very loud. It is much louder than tennis,
and I have zero complaints with the club with the noise restrictions.
My I I I hate speaking in public, by the way.
My only experience with this is I grew up in a neighborhood very similar to Brookfield,
in Mississippi, and now my children are growing up in Brookfield.
And ironically,
my neighbor growing up had a basketball
court similar in size. It was able
to shoot from the three point line.
They built it in their side yard. It backed up right next to my parents'
house in our side yard.
Totally not it wasn't their driveway. It was on the other side of the house. So you would never expect a basketball court to go in there.
But
nobody in the neighborhood ever complained.
My parents have had various neighbors,
buy the houses around them. They have a pool in the backyard and actually
the neighborhood is turning over. They're obviously
grandparents now, but behind them they have a new family with young children and it's very loud anytime we're in the pool when I take my kids home to visit.
It's very loud out there. They have two dogs that are always barking at our kids in the backyard. It's not nearly as peaceful as it used to be, but they live in a neighborhood. And again, I just think that if you want peace and privacy, you and privacy,
you can move way out. I did that a couple of years ago. I lived in Canton. I hated it. I wanted to be in a neighborhood community. But if you want that privacy,
there is space to go get it. I think I expect my neighbors to
utilize their space
as they please. I am constantly taking toys and balls back over to my neighbor's house that
come into our yard. So anyway, that's just my
my contribution. I am fully in support of this. I think that getting kids outside
and having neighborhood community is well worth it, and I agree with your comments that
moving it a little bit
is doesn't fix the issue at play here. So thank you.
Any other comments?
Any other public comments?
I will ask the applicant to approach and
if you'd like to rebut anything.
And then we
also, actually,
do we have any questions for miss Sellers who was representing the no. We're good. Okay. So the applicant may approach.
Alright. Sean Dinos.
So first of all, I agree. I should have talked to you guys on that. So I do agree with that when I wasn't thinking it was gonna be this huge production when it started as we're gonna put a basketball court in. So I agree I should talk to the neighbors. I will take care of some landscaping on the corner so that they feel a little bit better was the plan originally anyway. We talked about it for probably two months about going over diagonal to the neighbors that were up here last.
Did not. I felt weird knocking on the door and a couple other things, and I didn't know their intentions. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that was a bad decision. I could've talked to them, and they probably would've worked out a couple of things. So no hard feelings. Elevator ride was nice.
The intrusion,
with our neighbors
again, there's an email from our neighbors. I look a little brash going back and forth, but there's more more history than that. Again, you can already see a ball goes in their yard. My kids get yelled at. Are you able to do this camera again?
Not that I ever, you know, see them back there. Honestly, they have a beautiful pool back there. I've never seen or heard back there one time. I would like to complain about loud pool parties, but they don't use it. But, again, here's an example on your side of the fence of a camera they set up,
for
the camera they set up, for to view my property. This is a little bit of a challenge that I'm dealing with,
on there. This is just something we caught on this particular thing. Again, a lot of the interaction
was a little sour before. I hate to say it. I let them use my property when they needed to take down trees in their yard.
I've been more than I'll share this again for you.
I'd also like to say she when we found that camera, she was in the backyard videotaping about eight kids in my yard playing basketball.
So when she talks about privacy and us looking in her house, we don't look in our house. She stands there and videotapes, and we find cameras in her backyard videotaping us constantly.
And so you can see the how tight, whatever, 20 feet or whatever, but it's right up on the property line. We've never had an issue with it. You can see they're using their yard as max. You can see my yard on the other side. Those are trees around there. They've clear cut their trees on that side as well. There's no trees in both neighbor's yards. And so when they say we're cutting down ours, they were different trees that were dying. I've asked for years for them to clean up that three foot section,
but
nothing happened. They've had landscapers out there that quit on them in a couple things. So I'm not again, I don't wanna get into that.
On that. And then finally, again, I'm gonna got two more points.
Again, I should be this is the basketball court. If you guys wanna look closely, we've got there. Again, I'm sorry. I can't see down into their family room. I'm not looking in my family room. My kids aren't going over there. They don't wanna be put in the oven.
Like, there there there is no
this is the very back corner as tight as we can go. And I wanted to show you guys so you can see the privacy issues when we're looking down in their family room. My house is the one at the bottom of the sill.
You guys see, my house is the one that has a privacy issue. That's my house. Their house is above mine. Okay? Simple as that.
This is their house. This is the weeds and everything
that they, have. Take your time. One's in Treadback, one's in Angled View,
down the line. And you can see I left that that those trees are in my yard.
So there is not a single tree in their yard that's a specimen tree. It's all, bushes that they've replanted
to do that. So just to level set it, never had an issue. I'm jealous of their yard, if anything, along those lines,
of that. Again, I'm just gonna go back to, creating,
oh, one other thing real quick. The permitting and stuff in the timeline, if we had more time to prepare, I would go. We had a tree permit. Okay. You can't go back and get a tree permit. I have a tree permit. The tree permit was cut. The city, I presented it with, the trees that my tree guy pulled it,
in,
October.
Just FYI. It was not
movement before,
that. So I just wanna make sure we establish that as well. So I don't know the timeline of some of those pictures.
Again and I think the criteria for the extraordinary exceptionary conditions,
are with the topography.
That little grass area, there's also a dry stream bed down there. I've looked at the research. I thought I would have loved to do it. You can't I can't do land disturbance near this dry bed. Okay? Which you guys have probably had lots of people ask about stream buffers. Okay? So I'm not gonna get get into that as well. So I can't do it. I looked at other options. I did because up there is a more expensive endeavor, but it's the only flat space, and it was completely,
ruined there. So just FYI on that. And lastly, I appreciate the neighbors coming up. I had a lot more people come. I had a couple some people wrote letters. I didn't want a bunch of neighbors coming in here to get a conflict that are live live closer around me. The direct neighbor to let ride to me. I hope you guys read his letter and see what's going on,
with that. But I appreciate the support community. I was annoyed by the sign at first, but a lot of people came over and, we met more neighbors that were in full support of this, situation and community.
So I appreciate, what you guys are doing,
and
time.
Is there any other questions for me? Because
Yeah. We I'm sure we will. Yeah. Mister Schumacher, you recognized?
So
cut down the trees, and I presume you came in and did some sort of grading
to help level off a little bit more before putting the the concrete in? Yeah. Not much. Okay.
Could you have graded it in a way where you would have been within the setbacks,
assuming you had known about the setbacks? As it moves forward, the drop is dramatic. As you can, like, if you looked at the front of my house, so it keeps pitching, you know, so I was gonna get the exact where I want
not because, again, I wouldn't have the closer I get to my house, the better I was. And, again, I tried to think through a few things with the basketball court.
I
realized what a couple feet we're gonna cause here to your point. A couple feet gone, a couple feet there. Again, it's,
you know, I don't think it's gonna make a difference with their complaints. I think their complaints are bask
bouncing a basketball In the back. In the backyard.
Okay. That
clinging of the rim type thing. Okay? Like, I think that's the major complaint. If I thought a couple feet would make a difference, you know, but I don't think that's gonna solve anything,
currently.
And
so. So is it your position that you could not have graded it in a way that would have been entirely within the setback and have the court there? Yes.
Six feet?
Yeah. And I did the three point line. I mean, if I wanna cut in onto the foul line.
Correct. I wanted to be honest You could've gone with a smaller court as well. Correct? What's that? You could've gone with a smaller court as well. Correct?
Yes. K.
Yeah. If,
it's kind of do you have an overhead shot of the in your packet? Of what? Of the court?
It wasn't obvious to me until I visited the no. No. With the with the concrete poured in. No. No. I've never had
Okay.
Yeah. So
yeah, so it's kinda if you're looking
at the property
North south if you're looking at the property from the top down, it's basically the orientation is north south of the map.
The court is kinda landscape oriented,
not portrait, but, like, you know, wide oriented.
So
it's basically a half court
in in the
spirit of a half court. So you can have, like, a half court game.
And
I guess it's not quite as
wide as a half court would be, and it's only going up probably
probably not exactly three foot it's a three point line, but maybe, like, a few feet beyond the three point line where you can, like, maybe dribble like, maybe you can do one dribble and then, like, shoot a three point shot. You can always do smaller, but then you kinda lose the effect
of Yeah. You'd have to be
shooting from the
the grasp, basically. Yeah.
Okay.
Any other
yeah. Mister Hoard, do you have any questions?
Rocky Hoard.
In terms of
mitigations
that might be considered to reduce
sound
and or provide privacy,
to your neighbors to the rear.
What things have you considered?
Well, we're gonna do, I think, some landscaping and put in
some effort or anything like that. I mean, again, we're trying to keep up with the level of our neighbor's backyard,
to be, honest. So we plan to once
we've got this and the weather cools to put
to match what they've done.
And, again, just to make sure I'm understanding,
this court is
at a higher elevation than their pool. Is that correct? Yeah. It's at a higher elevation if you see on this, but it's probably
above their top rate a couple people left.
Their
pool is not level
with this hill. It goes down as well.
Okay.
So it's almost like a berm in between.
It's a little bit of an elevation.
Probably, like, maybe a foot,
maybe a little bit more from where the slab is. It's probably a couple of feet. Because even in this picture that you see on the left hand side, it's going up probably about a foot,
and then maybe it goes up a little bit more before it has a steep drop into the neighbor's pool in the back.
Thank you. A question for the city staff.
In terms
of mitigate or mitigating,
improvements to lessen the impact of the court on neighbors,
were there
things you've discussed with the applicant?
We did discuss the evergreen trees.
That's that's basically it.
We
we kinda talked about maybe the lighting,
but we definitely discussed a buffer of six foot
tall evergreens
around the court where where the property line is.
Just don't use bamboo. I can tell you that from experience.
That's that's a good wall
though. Any other questions for the applicant from the board?
Yes. Mister Kowalski. Mister Kowalski, just revisiting quick question as to when the concrete was poured. I just wanted to I've heard two different
time frames.
I I don't know exactly. I'd be fine saying it was January.
Thank you. I don't think it was January 2, the the day after New Year's Eve or that weekend, but I would be fine later January.
But in fact, the camera footage of what they have.
K.
Anything else for the applicant?
Alright. You may have a seat. Thank you.
Alright. Do we have any questions for staff? Got a quick question for staff. Yes, please. Mister Seager, you're recognized?
If he
went before or applied for Landis Termas
permit,
do you see if he would do you think he would have run into any
issues surrounding getting that land disturbance permit?
Are you saying if he without the variances or in Well, usually, you know, he didn't get
an okay from
on on on the land disturbance.
Right.
Yeah. If he had if if we received the land disturbance permit for this basketball court, we would have determined there that it required a variance.
Okay. Are you asking specific to engineering review or planning and zoning review? I just thought you would have to have along with the setback variances,
a land disturbance permit to do that construction?
A land disturbance permit, and I don't know what their threshold is.
There is a gray area where
a land disturbance permit,
like, is required for retaining wall, but there is a threshold they have, and I do not know that off the top of my head.
One thing I do know is no building permit is required for the court itself. So laying concrete pavement in this type of application,
a building permit is not required.
However, it is for the retaining wall.
So I and and
probably a lot of the work that was done with the retaining wall.
Did to
the review for a land disturbance permit.
Sure.
Yeah. You recognize mister Kowalski?
Ian Kowalski. Question to staff.
If this variance were turned down,
what would occur in the next couple of months after that?
They would need to remove it from the setback area. They would not need to remove the court entirely.
They would just need to remove that encroaching portion.
Richard had a slide. Would you like him to bring it
back up that showed the site plan with the encroachment?
They would need to remove the red portion of the court
so that it would meet the setback requirements.
Yep. Go ahead.
Along the same line,
is there anything else that could be done if the variance were turned down that would essentially
eliminate the use of that red area seeing as it's already there? It's out of sight.
Because it's it's done, but it's down below the level of the berm.
Not quite sure what your question is. If that red area was nonfunctional and couldn't be used,
planters.
Oh,
Movable planters get put there. So Are you you proposing that instead of removing the court putting something to make it unusable?
Correct. I don't think that would meet the
but would They wouldn't meet the intent. They would be encroaching in the setback.
You would need to grant a variance,
whatever existed there.
Okay. So that in and of itself would be a variance,
but a different type.
Yeah. I guess it's still a structure.
Even if it has planters on it, it's still the structure.
Anything else for staff?
Yes. Mister Schumacher.
So I noticed staff didn't include any recommendations
on conditions.
Are there any that you'd recommend?
There was some discussion. I yeah.
Any recommendation of conditions with surround
buffers? This is buffers are not required. So had he built the court to the standards required by the code, then no buffers would be required. So should the variance be granted, that's an opportunity to add conditions of approval
of the variance. So
buffers,
sort of regulation of the timing of that it can be used. The city does have noise ordinances,
but you could go something reasonable beyond that.
And then to, you know, tighten up any kind of lighting that may be added at some point to make sure
that buffered. You know, we wanna
minimize the impact. So any
addition that you can add to minimize the impact
would be appropriate.
Are there any approvals that would be required in advance for the lighting?
They just put up lights if they want it or would they need to come to the city to go ahead and put up
lighting.
Yeah. There's many things that you don't need permits as
Like a sport out of required.
Any type of permitting. It just needs to meet the regulations of the code.
I don't want to get into too many layers because, you know, we have a lot of moving
parts. But let's use a fence, for example.
Someone puts up a fence. We do not require a fence permit. However we have regulations in the code.
Have to follow. And if you
don't follow the regulations of the code for lighting,
then
you could receive a violation and have to
modify what you've built.
So just because something doesn't require a permit
doesn't mean that it doesn't
regulation that's there.
Dan,
just to be clear,
we could condition where they could not put up vertical lighting around that sports court. If we approve with approval of the variance, we could condition it. One of the conditions could be that they could not install vertical lighting around that.
Okay.
By granting the variance, you have an opportunity to grant it with conditions of
approval.
Yep. Mister Hoard?
Rocky Hoard. Miss Sellers, if you would, I've had a question for you. I'm gonna give it it may ask you a really geeky legal question.
I happen to be a commercial real estate attorney by trade.
I see in
the letter that you submitted in the package provided to us, back in,
oh, bear with me just a moment.
I think in the, preservation of constitutional rights section,
I think I see you making a
almost an inverse condemnation
argument,
which I'm used to seeing in
I I everything I learned about the law, I learned in California. And most of those cases came out of the California Coastal Commission about
some restriction being put on a coastal property
that essentially because it restricted their use,
it was tantamount to a taking.
Here,
granting a variance not on your client's property, but on a neighboring property. What
explain to me how that's a taking of your client's property.
Let's assume for a moment, okay, if there's nuisance going on on on
the the applicant's property, your client's your client has recourse,
through the the law. So explain to me the sort of the inverse or the taking concept.
Sure.
And and I will fully confess,
I do not think I have represented an opponent to a variance.
I'm not in Roswell a ton, but the times I've been before you all, I am always trying to advocate for development. So this is not something
I turn away cases weekly because we just don't
take on opposition on a regular basis.
The facts here
were such that it did cause me to take on this representation.
So, you know, what we have
is a
concrete
structure
that I think by all admission
could have been constructed
in a way that did not violate the setbacks. But when you go into the setback, the whole purpose of the setback
is for that separation.
And so by allowing someone to come closer,
which the code says
setback should be there to have that separation.
I think one of the things being discussed was could we maybe soften,
mitigate this with landscaping?
Well, there certainly could have been a lot more landscaping if there was less concrete, if the court was smaller, if the court did not intrude into the setback.
But the,
the whole purpose of the constitutional
reservations
is if this ends up in court under Georgia law, if we don't say, hey. We're putting you on notice,
then we don't have an opportunity to even get in front of a judge to be able to make any arguments.
So
the
taking
part is simply as a result of being
too close to our property and infringing on our right for peaceful enjoyment.
We have established standing because
my clients and the Williams
are uniquely situated that this has a significant impact on them that is not commonly shared with other members of the community, other neighbors that are farther away,
because they are the adjacent owners. They do have standing,
that is unique to them.
So what I'm hearing is that your prop your neighbor that your client's property rights
extend beyond their boundary?
Their right to peacefully enjoy their property
is being impacted
by the infringement in the setback.
And I'll fully admit, I'm a straight shooter. We're we're talking about probably about six feet. I think we all acknowledge
the court can be there. I think at the heart of it, we have
a violation
that did not need to be such.
This was something that
before
the concrete was poured,
you know, my clients were saying, let's just check with the city
and make sure that this is done right so that you're not coming
too close to our property.
And the response was no thanks. We're gonna do what we wanna do. Yeah. Miss Sellers, and again, that was certainly made clear in your correspondence to the to the board. Thank you, and I appreciate your expounding on the constitutional argument. Thank you. Thank you.
K. Do we have a motion? Can I have Oh, yes? Mister Kowalski?
Ian Kowalski, if you may allow me to think out loud for a minute.
If
this had come before us before the Sport Court was built and we were being asked about a variance,
I think we would have looked at this, we would have gone back and forth, we would have said, is there anything you can do to build it
and maintain the 10 foot setbacks?
And maybe you could have made it wider, maybe you could have set the goal a little farther back for on onto the grass. Maybe you could
realize that for taking a, a long basketball
shot, you could walk backwards onto the grass.
And we would have probably got to something
which wouldn't have required a variance as we had discussed back and forth. That's just me guessing and talking out loud. Nobody knows
what would have happened had we gone there.
Now with that said,
if we had gone that way,
that court then could have got put in. There wouldn't have needed to be any blocking. There would have been no limitations. It just gets built.
So I'm this is kind of even an unfair question in this mister and missus Schneider. You don't even have to answer this.
But I excuse me.
I make gestures sometimes.
Would you
be better off from a viewpoint
of noise,
light at night,
things like that
if the sport court stayed, but various restrictions
got put upon it
that would,
in some ways,
mitigate
in ways that wouldn't have been mitigated
had the support court gotten in this gone in a smaller size.
And I'm just
looking to see if you would like to say anything about that, and there is absolutely no requirement for you to answer that question.
One
thought, I think
there is they're talking amongst themselves.
I think hearing what we have heard, one
potential could be
to delay a decision on this to allow
to see if the neighbors could perhaps
have some conversations
and maybe reach some agreements
related to conditions that would mitigate. I don't know that my clients are comfortable
making the decision on the spot. Maybe if we do a pause
or perhaps have some time,
for the neighbors to have some conversations
and come back for a decision
next month,
or at a minimum, let my clients talk amongst themselves for at least a few minutes perhaps if the board would be indulgent with that.
Yep. I think,
well, actually, I'll I'll,
worst case scenario to the applicant.
Would you would you be okay,
discussing
any mitigation steps with the with your neighbors in the rear
and and coming back,
you know,
well,
whoever whoever. You have two neighbors in the back,
who are both opposing.
No. No. You you don't have to do that right now. But,
we could defer it to next month.
We we wouldn't go through all these,
all the public comments again. If you come to a decision,
then,
we can
we can
just approve it with our, you know, whatever decision, that you guys if you guys cannot come up with a resolution
that we could deny it, that's a possibility. We could deny it today. That's obviously a possibility. Or or you could if you come back and if you have all the neighbors behind you with certain conditions,
then we would have,
little reason to deny it, and we could approve it with those agreed upon conditions.
So it's your call. You know, you you can you can proceed with it today,
or,
wait a month and try to work it out with the neighbors.
Yeah.
How about we take a five minute bio break? I think, I could use a rest, and then we will actually, let's come back at 08:30PM.
So it's gonna be a seven minute bio break,
and you guys can discuss.
Okay. I think we're
gonna
resume.
K.
Alright.
So I'll
I'm gonna
I'm gonna I have a question for the applicant.
So,
what's your preference? Do you wanna work something out, or do you wanna proceed as it is today?
Your
your wife is a school teacher. Right?
Yeah. You can approach if you'd like.
Or yeah. Yeah. Please.
Yeah. No. No.
Yeah. The lectern.
I
don't
know.
Yes.
Actually, I'm sorry. What are they? Yeah. So your options are you can proceed with the meeting as is, and,
unless you already have a resolution,
with the neighbors,
if you don't have that, then you can,
we can defer the meeting.
You have a month to discuss, negotiate with your neighbors, any mitigation
that would come with an approval.
And then we come back. If you have an agreement,
we can then vote on,
well, we we can we can craft a motion that takes into consideration
the agreed upon
mitigation for the approval, whether that be
playtime restrictions, lighting, you know, I'm not giving you any ideas, but whatever.
Screening
with evergreens, whatever that is and or,
and we can vote on that,
motion.
Or you can you know, if you don't if you're
not comfortable waiting another month,
and which if you wanna just proceed as is, then we can proceed and,
you know, make make a motion that
may satisfy one party, might not satisfy the other party, may not satisfy anyone at all, and everyone leaves here upset. So,
you know, it's a it's a it's it's your application. So, it's your call. Yes, mister
Kowalski. Ian Kowalski. The reason I started this discussion
is my personal feeling is
we can make all kinds of guesses here on a way to craft a motion, and we're pretty much guaranteed to get it wrong.
What we really want is ideally
good neighbors being good neighbors,
and
we can't do that. Only the neighbors can do that,
which is why I said what I said. Okay.
And if we didn't come to conditions, we'd just be back here and you guys would take into consideration everything we discussed today? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We would almost it would be like a pause, and then we would have to go through all that again. We would just,
One more question. Yeah. Go ahead. Does that variance sign have to stay in my yard for the next thirty days as well? Or is that Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Could that be a condition of this agreement? Well, we have some we have some,
public notice requirements that we need to put it erected
some days in advance of the meeting. What is that?
Jeanne Payton, planning and zoning director.
By state regulations. It has to be in your yard thirty days prior to the hearing
rendered. So it's another full hearing, basically. It's not just we submit our conditions and
No. No. We we won't go through everything that we've gone through today. We won't have the staff report. We won't have public comments. We would
we would just basically affirm that if you and the neighbors have an agreement that everyone is on the same page, and then we would craft a motion
that meets,
those conditions, and we will vote on it. Not necessarily. I mean okay.
Yeah. But the the the intent is once the neighbors get get this thing worked out and it's reasonable, like
yeah. Then then we would,
we would try to follow your lead.
Try to come to an agreement.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Mister Kowalski, you're recognized?
I'd like to make a motion to defer.
Give me one second. Mister Huey
It's Robbie Wright. Seconds.
Okay.
All in favor?
Right. Unanimous
deferment.
Thank you. Thank you everyone for your time today.
We are
yeah. We're done.
So we're gonna move to the approval of the meeting minutes
from the July 8
meeting.
We have a motion?
Alright. Mister Schumacher makes a motion to approve.
Second. We have a second from mister Hannah.
All in favor?
Alright.
Unanimous approval of the meeting from the July 8 meeting.
And
if
there are no objections, we will adjourn tonight's meeting.
I see no objections.