Ways & Means Ad Valorem Tax Subcommittee 2.5.26

Let's give it a shot. Alright. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Thank you all for being here. Appreciate the subcommittee members being here.

And, we're gonna have a hearing on two bills today, and we're gonna start as they're listed on the sheet. Representative Cannon will let you come up and present yours. HB 964. If you don't mind, just read the LC number.

Thank you, mister chairman. Can everybody hear me? Yes, sir. House bill 964 LC five 01293. Very good.

Alright. Mister chairman, we're ready?

Yes, sir. You go right ahead. Alright.

The purpose of this bill is to treat independently contracted fire departments the same as fire departments that are agencies of local governments. In most cases, these independently contracted departments are volunteer fire departments or we we refer to them as VFDs who perform the same function as fire departments that are that are organic to or part of local governments. Mostly those are mostly cities and counties. Local government fire departments are exempt from Avalon taxes on motor vehicles and exempt from sales and use taxes on fire department equipment. Independently contracted fire departments are not.

Again, both are performing the same service for the public. So the proposal before you today would make these independently contracted fire departments exempt from those same taxes so that they would be treated equally as in house fire departments. That's basically the gist of, the language that I'm proposing. On lines fourteen and fifteen, you see we require any independently contracted fire departments to be engaged exclusively in the exercise of general and and emergency powers. And I have that, part of the code section, printed here if there's any questions.

It basically is protect life and property against fire explosions and hazardous materials or electrical hazards, detect and prevent arson, etcetera, conduct programs of public education, fire prevention, and safety. That's part of the code section for OCGA 25 dash three dash one. That exclusivity is also reflected in lines twenty three and twenty four for the sales tax sales and use taxes, provision. So when I first heard about this issue, the asked them some questions and why couldn't locals just work it out with their VFDs and, you know, have, the local government purchase these vehicles and equipment and then lease it back to the VFD for a smaller amount. And what I learned basically that was, you know, local government attorneys wanted to avoid any appearance of liability, which could arguably make arguably make the local government liable for the acts of the VFD.

So the policy position here is let's allow the locals to have some separation for liability purposes and keep the fire departments independent. But since they are performing the same function as in house fire departments, let's also treat them the same in terms of taxation with respect to the taxpayers. Overall, I think this is a pretty common sense approach to this issue. Spoke with DOR, ACCG, GMA. They have no issues with it.

Spoken with the volunteer fire association. They're good with it. So that's the general provision of the bill, and I would take any questions from the committee, mister chairman.

Representative, do you have any idea of how many dollars we might be talking about as far as

I've asked, we've got a I guess, talking to mister Harvin, we've got a fiscal note requested for it, and we should have it here, I guess, here pretty shortly.

Very good. Very good. Alright. I'll just speak with ACCG. Alright.

Any members? We've got somebody out who just wants to say something that the members don't mind or the subcommittee. We'll let them speak, and then we'll come back and have y'all ask questions. We've got mister Nathan Corbett. There you go.

Nathan, you can

use that microphone right there. Right here? Alright.

Good afternoon, mister chairman and members of the committee. It's a pleasure to be here today, and to speak to this bill. We definitely support this bill. Our members designated this bill a legislative priority for this session. One statistic I'd like to share with you, according to FEMA, 48.8% of all fire departments in Georgia are volunteer fire departments.

HB nine sixty four would extend TAVT and sales tax exemptions to these volunteer fire departments. We believe that's greatly needed. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Well, let me see if anybody has any questions. Anybody have any questions for mister Corbett? Okay. Thank you, mister Corbett.

Yo. Hey. We got one right here, mister Corbett. Representative Kelly.

How is other property that the volunteers kind of use and, what what about, you know, the the volunteers have the real estate? Did they have their stations owned, titled in their name? How how does usually does that usually work?

I'm not entirely certain from what I know of the volunteer fire departments. They are five zero one c three nonprofits, so I would imagine that they would own their own property, but I can't say with certainty.

And the mask, mister chairman, in my experience, the fire departments own their own stations.

Alright. Thanks, Dan. We've got number 26, representative chairman. Lady chair, lady count.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, representative Cannon, for bringing this bill. One of the going back to the question about, buildings. I know in in my county, I believe the buildings are owned by fire department leases them for a dollar.

Mhmm. So there's no ad valorem tax paid on county property.

Good point.

Alright. That sounds good. Thank you, Charlie. Chairman Martin.

Yeah. I would just the the gentleman just suggest looking at line 23 in the bill where it says ex used exclusively in the exercise. Right. In in the past, our friends at DOR are just doing what they're supposed to do if they're in here. I don't wanna get sideways with DOR, but they they take that as words on paper, black letter wall.

Exclusively, they could say if they take that out and and use one of those vehicles in a parade or they shouldn't then it's not exclusively for, emergency services. For instance, a four we had exclusively in the code on manufacturing, and somebody used a forklift to to lift up to to clean the building, which was not manufacturing. They said it wasn't exclusive anymore, and the forklift wasn't tax exempt. So I would say maybe predominantly used or I'll I'll leave it to the the lawyer to come, but exclusively means never for another purpose. And I just I just caution you to to look at that when you bring it back maybe for the second hearing.

Because you

you you don't wanna do what you think you're doing and then put the revenue department in the bind to enforce the law or it if it does that do do you recall that, mister Hall?

You were

you Not usable exclusively and

if they used it in a parade or something

like that. I I don't call if I may have back in

I mean, we we there were there was an issue with a forklift that was used for maintenance of the building in addition to manufacturing, and they wanted to not give them the sales package. Yeah.

If we I'm gonna ask Nathan to find out that one for us.

They are DR. Just been d

r I mean, they can work out the language, though. Just make sure that we all heard it.

Maybe if we just ask, mister Court would have to find out through d r and about the word exclusively. I gotcha. And David's got it David's got it down here, and he's gonna check-in it too too. So y'all can work together. Any any other questions to representative Cannon?

Alright. This is hearing only. Representative Cannon will get all these questions answered. You'll be notified when the next next hearing will hear it again and then vote on it. So

Thank you, mister chairman. Appreciate the comments from the committee. Look forward to coming back.

Thank you. Thank you. Alright. We're gonna hear from representative Huddleston. Alright.

Representative, we'll let you do the same. If you don't mind, call out your bill number and your LC number.

Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you all all committee members today. I will be, bringing before you today House Bill eight seven four. It'll be LC number 501262. The bill that I'll bring for you today is is basically, Georgia Taxpayers Privacy Protection Act. Basically, the purpose of this bill is to protect Georgia taxpayers' privacy by prohibiting disclosure of telephone numbers and property tax records when those records are sold, transferred, or shared with third parties.

Applies to an avilar on property tax records and prevents sensitive personal contact information from being publicly circulated beyond necessary government use. Within the within the bill, the state says to make sure to clarify and get in-depth, that no person shall include taxpayer telephone numbers in any tax roll assessment record or other publicly accessible property tax documents. The provision of this code section shall apply to both physical and electronic records including but not limited to records made available for data sales, open record requests, and third party agreements. The provision of this code shall not apply to internal use by state and local agencies for tax collection enforcement, court order disclosures, and any specific use for which taxpayers provided written consent. It's basically only going for third parties.

This bill also establishes penalties for violations, procedures and complaints and requirements for policies of enforcement to ensure that these privacy protections are followed. Within the bill, it says any person that negatively or knowingly discloses a taxpayer's telephone number in a public tax record shall upon conviction be subject to civil penalty not to exceed 5,000. Any taxpayer affected by violation of this code shall, section shall have the right to file a complaint with the attorney general's office for violation of this code section. The commissioner and the county tax commissioners shall adopt any policies and procedures necessary to implement the provisions. Basically, what we're looking at today is basically the personal protection information.

Property tax rolls are often public records. And historically, they have included not just names and addresses, but also telephone numbers for property owners. Telephone numbers, as we know, they can be misused in unwanted calls, spam, harassment, identity theft, or data mining by private entities. Private intrusions without clear public purpose. And I'm entities, private intrusions without clear public purpose.

And I would imagine we've all have received some of these phone calls. HP eight seventy four aims to shield citizens from these harms by removing phone numbers from publicly disclosed versions of tax data. Basically, the goal here is not to block public access to valid property tax information. It's to limit what personal contact information gets shared to others. The bill keeps records functional for government and legitimate uses while preventing unnecessary spread of sensitive data.

Said this bill does not alter tax based rates, credits or exemption. So there's no physical note there. It just simply protects the privacy of how records are made available. So HP 74 protects the privacy and safety of Georgia taxpayers without altering the tax policy or revenue. This bill strengthens public trust in our tax systems while preserving transparency where it matters.

So let, mister chairman, I'll take any questions and do my best to answer.

Okay, representative. Thank you. We've got a couple here. Representative chairlady chairman chairlady Campbell.

I love all these titles. Thank you, mister chairman. Representative representative Huddleston, thank you for bringing this bill. I have a couple of questions. I am a real estate agent slash broker.

I have been going through tax rolls for two decades. I've never seen a phone number. Is there a particular county where this has happened? Is this a preventative measure? Because the only information that's readily available on county websites, even if you go down and start searching records, you I've never located a phone number this way.

I was gonna say, I don't know the in-depth of that. I just know it was brought to my attention. And actually, it was it was a gentleman that I was speaking to that was from the Department of Revenue had basically, I guess, somewhere along the way within those tax records, the numbers were identified so that that's why we kinda addressed that to make sure.

Well, may I follow-up, mister chairman?

And I and I can look going into it, I can look further to make sure if that's to be Yes, ma'am. Okay.

I get text constantly from people asking if I still own property on X Road, if I'd be willing to sell property on X Road. I've gone back to look to make sure there's that information, I think, someone's gotten crafty, and they've crossed up who I am with the other information on the Internet. But I don't I don't I see what you're trying to get at, but, again, I if I would love as a real estate agent to be able to find someone's phone number Right. Easily by just looking at tax records to call them up and talk to them, but I've never been able to ascertain that information that way. So

Well, I'll clarify it. And like I said, to have opportunity to come back, then I'll try to clarify that.

Alright. Thank you.

Thank you. Alright.

Thank you. Chair lady. Kemp. Mister, chairman Martin.

I have a I have a two questions, a serious one and another serious one. My my first serious one is if we take these phone numbers and everything, how am I ever gonna get my car warrant?

Car warranty? How am I ever gonna

buy a a car warranty?

I imagine we've all received some of those.

I I I joke. I understand what the gentleman's trying to get. Now now now a serious question. I I guess I just wanna be careful again. We don't paint with too broad a brush.

And and that sometimes on on tax records, they scan various things in at a closing. I just wanna make sure we don't put somebody, in a bond for a $5,000 penalty because you may have written your own phone number on a closing document and it got scanned into a state system.

Yes, sir.

So I just I just wanna be careful of that.

Yes, sir. And I think that would that was probably that's right. And I think that would be one thing that that if you ask me personally, I would appreciate y'all's comments on that to address that because like I said, knowing that those complaints will be followed through the attorney general now.

Something that was, you know, that if it was created by the state or something as opposed to on on a document that was submitted by the, the property or something. That's something to think about.

Sounds good. Thank you, sir.

I'm gonna call. Alright. Thank you, chairman Martin. Representative Hong, the vice chair of the caucus.

Thank you, chairman. Chairman Martin, just to address that, I think it it does address it in line 39 as far as any person that or knowingly disclose the information. So I think if anything with realist if it just was scanned and, it it just wasn't knowingly No. Done.

I think that's great. Yes. If we knowingly, if it's done and left up to the

Alrighty. Thank you. Chair Lee DeCamp.

Thank you. Just to just to, Chair Lee oh, I'm not even sure what to address her. Vice Chair Hong. Is that correct? Okay.

Okay. I almost called you Florida, but that's not your title right now. I think to your point, she's correct about net you know, unknowingly, negligently putting in. But on line 40, it only says a public tax record. And what we're discussing, what, chairman Martin just brought to light, someone's scanning in documents, that would actually be at the clerk of court's office, which is a completely separate office from the tax commissioner's office.

So I if we were gonna go that route, actually this would be a more comprehensive bill and it would stop someone's personal telephone number for being on any county records relating to a real estate transaction.

Okay. Thank you. So I mean, like I said, I'll I'll I'll look into it and see what depth we can get into it to clarify that.

Okay. Thank you, Chelety Camp. A lot of good questions. And this is this is hearing only and representative Huddleston knows that. And oh, one more.

Okay. Excuse me. Hold on. Hold that part. Yes, ma'am.

Number four.

Thank you to the chair. Just a quick question. Who asked you to bring the bill? Who

I was talking to I was talking to a gentleman and and he had brought the the information to me of, basically, I guess, receiving all these phone calls of scams and things like that. So, basically, that's kinda what generated for me to look into. It was basically just general conversation.

So it wasn't like a certain entity or

group or okay. No.

Okay. Alright. No other questions. Nobody from the audience wants to speak. This first hearing only, you'll be notified.

We'll have the second hearing. Maybe some of y'all should talk in the meantime and work it together and look forward to you coming back.

Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you, comedian. That's why I enjoy hearing only because it does bring out information that allows me to work on it to make a bill better, to make it move on. So thank you all very much.

Very good. No other business meeting is adjourned.